Engineer Update - Coming this week!

[Orion]

The half clip is a drawback, but revenge crits (2 for every sentry kill and 1 for every sentry assist) make up for it easily. It's even worth rebuilding a level one if it gets a kill so you can save up the crit for the first inquiring spy to mosey on down to your buildings.

With a Mini-sentry (and +25 hp) as well as the frontier justice the engineer becomes actually useful on the attacking front, which was his key character flaw. I know teleporters and all that, but that wasn't really frontline, more defending ground already won as a staging/fallback area. The engineer can now actively fufill his role of "area denial" by denying the area the fight is going on in.

[frat57]

How is the Wrangler, is it awesome, or just ok? And one more question. Does the wrangler extend the sentry's range?

[9Squirrels]

I don't believe that the range has been extended, however, where the sentry would previously not fire at something at more than medium range, now you can shoot at things on the other side of the map if you want

[A Bloodthirsty Nee]

I don't believe that the range has been extended, however, where the sentry would previously not fire at something at more than medium range, now you can shoot at things on the other side of the map if you want

Ah, makes sense how I got hit by rockets even though I seemed out of range

[frat57]

Wow. I can see engineers shooting at snipers across 2fort.

[9Squirrels]

I haven't actually played it, but from the gameplay video I saw, when the engie is using the Wrangler, it shows a laser beam pointing at where the SG is aiming, so the Engie would need to stick his head out to see where he was aiming, making him sniper bait, that and the fact that the SG would obviously have to be built out in the open (or built elsewhere and moved into the open). It opens up some interesting gameplay changes, but I don't think it's going to make him too overpowered.

It'll be good to be able to build the SG in the hall in 2Fort which runs to the staircase going down to the drain and not have it picked off by nasty little scoutses with their nasty little hand gunses.

Yessss, my precious!

[frat57]

Against scouts, it sounds like it may be better to just not use the wrangler, because with out the Wrangler, the SG has perfect accuracy.

[A Bloodthirsty Nee]

Wrangler sentries are also pretty spy-prone, now you can just backstab and sap without the sentry gun obliterating you into smithereens. Sometimes I see two engineers together build one wrangler sentry and one default sentry in close proximity because of said problem (or just have your back to a wall or dispenser when using the wrangler, if possible).

[chipbuster]

well, the wrangler is okay in most situations, but there are some where it's just horrible overpowered if played right. In particular, it turns Gpit B into a nightmare. If you build a level three at spawn and carry it over, you can wrangler-jump to the roof of b. Turn out that as long as you don't have the wrangler out (not: have another weapon out) you can pick up buildings. I've seen guys wrangler jump and use the delay of the rockets to pick up their buildings as they jump. Once you get on top, put the sentry down, build a tele and dispenser, and have another engy (who has bee building a sentry and dispenser at spawn) come on up. You put your wranglered sentries down and proceed to spam the two tunnel entrances to B with concentrated rocket and bullet fire. A third engy (optional) fixes your stuff, spams with the pistol, and leaves his sentry on the back side of the roof.

Basically the only things you have to worry about are snipers (who can't get the shot because you are either hidden by the point itself or constantly shooting them), soldiers who manage to sneak all the way around from C (possible, but your team fails if they actually get on the roof, and not a problem if you have three engies due to the third sentry), or uber demos (no other class can land enough damage to destroy a sentry with the uber. If you pick up your sentry and run to the other side of B, they won't be able to get to you before the uber runs out, and your team can mop them up. You don't even have to worry about spies if you use the build tele in spawn tactic.

Basically the only way to beat this technique if the defending team is half-competent is to use an uber demo to force both engineers to pick up their sentries, then either snipe them or jump soldiers up there to take them out while they have their sentries picked up. You have about a two second window to work in, and if they have three engies up there, the engies can just run to the safety of the third sentry. The uber would have to run all the way around B to get to it. If they do, the original two engies just run back to the first spot and set the sentries back up.

Damn, now that I've seen that, I can't believe I don't do this more often. The only counter is to force the engies to pick up their sentries and then kill them while they do that? Crazy....

[frat57]

Wow. So, does the engineer update horribly unbalance the game, or just add a new dimension? And I'm predicting that popping in and out of cover doesn't work any more.And what about the mini sentries, do you guys find those popping up outside of your spawn room?

[A Bloodthirsty Nee]

Somehow, even with their upgraded sentry guns, plus wranglers, mini sentries etc... I don't think a match gets horribly unbalanced, as long as both teams are at a similar level. A competent team with a decent amount of communication can usually take down 'em sentry nests but take note of the emphasis placed on "competent" and "communication". Unfortunately this tends to be lacking quite a number of times I've played and witnessing the lone heavy vs. a whole minefield of mini-sentries by spawn is pretty commonplace.
My implied point may seem cheezy, but making them sentries more powerful necessitates the requirement of teamwork from the opposers to take them down.

[frat57]

Yeah. I Agree. The team has to be coordinated to take down a sentry, but the skill of the engineer's team also counts as a factor. Any half-decent engineer can set up a sentry. But the engineer's team is the deciding factor at how many kills it gets.

[A Bloodthirsty Nee]

Hmm, I do have a question concerning the gunslinger: How do I unlock it?

[frat57]

I think it is just the random drop system. I'm not sure though.

[Jermy]

Frat is Right, but you can also unlock it via the achievements (11 IIRC)

Chipbuster, Have you tried using the wrangler to bullet jump? It's where you use the knockback of the sentry bullets to propel you through the air. It's compatible with the Gunslinger because of the half damage and 150 health you get, meaning extra cool jumps.

Oh, and a challenge for any willing forumite:
http://tf2wiki.net/w/images/6/6f/Badwater_3.jpg
Land on the ledge in the top left of this image. I think that it is unreachable through any other methods other than rocket/sticky/sentry jumping, and if you can set up a teleporter there... *evil cackle*